[녹취록] 3강 소란의 정치, 국민과 시민 사이

발제_ 소란의 정치, 국민과 시민 사이: 신여성에서 김치녀까지

김수진

일베 및 일베 현상이 보여주는 광범위한 여성 혐오가 현재 가장 초미의 관심이라고 생각이 듭니다. 제가 오늘 보여드릴 것은 ‘소란’인데요. 일베 문제가 보여주는 것은 젠더라는 문제를 둘러싼 소란입니다. 이 소란의 어떤 현대적 기원, 혹은 근대적 기원, 그리고 젠더를 둘러싼 ‘소란’의 구조, 근대의 한국 사회가 구조화하고 있는 어떤 젠더를 둘러싼 소란이 어떻게 시작되었고, 그 특징이 무엇이고. 이런 이야기를 하고 싶어서 소란이라는 말을 썼습니다.

그리고 정치. 소란이 어떤 소음과 의미가 있는 말들 사이에 있는데요. 의미있는 말과 의미가 없다고 여겨지는 소음 사이에서 무엇이 의미있는 것인가를 둘러싼 싸움이기도 하고. 누구에게는 의미가 있고, 누구에게는 의미가 없다는 것을 배분하는 것이기도 합니다. 저는 그것을 정치라고 봅니다.

그러한 의미에서 지금 일어나고 있는 (소란의) 현상은 굉장히 정치적인 것이다. 여기서 누구도 벗어날 수가 없다. 아무리 벗어나려고 해도 벗어나지 못하는, 밖이 없는 안에서만 금긋기만 계속 가능한 그런 현장이라고 생각을 하구요. 이러한 문제에 부딪히면 사람들은 회피하려하다가 나름대로 분석을 해보고 그것에 입장을 가져보고 하잖아요. 근데 이런 문제들은 잘 해결이 잘 안돼요. 명쾌한 답, 누구에게나 다 설득될 수 있는 모든 사람들을 만족시킬 수 있는 그런 답은 안나와요. 그 사실은 여러 가지 이유로 분석을 해볼 수 있는데요. 정신분석도 해보고, 세대론으로도 분석을 해보고 다양하게 분석을 해보는데, 그래도 남는 것들이 있다라는 것이고. 저는 그것들을 역사적인 부분에서 찾고자 합니다.

제 연구 자체가 오늘의 현상을 예언하거나 예비했던 것은 아니에요. 이 연구는 오래 전에 했던 연구고요. 그렇지만 굉장히 깊은 문제 의식으로 가보면은, 왜 제가 여기까지 이 시대까지 올라왔을까. 당시에는 1920~30년대에 관심을 가진 사람은 없었고, 더군다나 신여성이라는 말이 있는지 조차도 잘 알려지지 않았을 때였거든요. 근데 왜 나는 왜 거기까지 올라가야 했을까라고 생각해보면… 현재의 문제를 생각해볼 때, 이 문제의 원인이 어디있을지에 대해 고민해보다가 거기까지 갔다는 생각을 합니다. 그래서 오늘은 일종의 역사와의 대화일 수도 있고, 저는 어떤 면에서는 100년이라는 역사가 굉장히 긴 것 같지만 저한테는 굉장히 어떤 영화의 overlapping, montage와 같은, 100년 전의 상황과 지금의 상황이 대화를 나누고 있다는 느낌이 들어요. 오늘 제가 발제할 내용은, 신여성이라는 말을 둘러싼 거의 100년 전의 이야기로 거슬러 올라가보겠습니다.

 

희박한 역사, 흔적의 귀환

역사책을 읽으면 촘촘하게 읽어져요. 무엇 다음에 무슨 일이 일어나고.. 굉장히 인과관계가 있어보입니다. 하지만 그것은 역사가가 스토리를 그렇게 엮은 거죠. 사실은 굉장히 듬성듬성하죠. 어떤 것들은 듬성듬성한 것도 느껴지지 않을 정도로 매끈하게 매어진 역사들도 있어요. 하지만 특히 여성과 젠더에 관한 역사는 마치 없는 것처럼, 우리의 역사교과서에서 잘 드러나지 않아요. 그냥 툭툭툭 나와요. 그러니까 그동안 여성은 없었나, 젠더를 둘러싼 소란이 없었나..? 그렇지 않죠. 그래서 저는 이것을 ‘희박한’ 역사라고 표현을 했습니다. 희박한 역사의 대표적인 예가 신여성이었어요. 제가 20년 전만해도 그 말도 잘 몰랐는데, 지금은 다 알잖아요. 다큐멘터리도 나오고, 영화도 나오고, 엄청 많은 문화 콘텐츠들도 나오고.. 마치 다 알려져 있는 것 같지만, 알려져 있지 않았던.. 거의 억압되거나 지워져 갈 뻔 했던 사건이에요. 그 해박했던 역사에 흔적이 남았다는 겁니다. 한국 사회에 어떤 제도에, 사람에 흔적이 남은 것이죠. 나혜석의 예를 들면, 몇 가지 단어들로 사라졌는데, 그 흔적이 신문을 통해 발견된 것처럼 말이죠. 한국사회의 어떤 곳에, 즉, 정신세계나 세계를 바라보는 방식이라던가, 또는 사람을 기억하는 방식에 어떤 흔적을 남겼습니다. 그리고 그 흔적이 어떤 시점이 됐을 때, 어떤 조건들과 맞아 떨어졌을 때, 그것이 마치 살아있는 것처럼 귀환한다는 것이죠. 저는 그 ‘흔적의 귀환’이 오늘날 우리가 목격하고 있는 여러 세태들, -된장녀, 김치녀, 알파걸 등- 담론들로 출현한다는 것이죠. 즉, 이것은 갑작스러운 출현이 아닙니다. 이렇게 귀환하고 있는 이 사람들을 공통적으로 본다면, 어떻게든 ‘호명’이 되는 거에요. 그 명칭에 대해서, 그 호명을 하는 주체와 대상들이 있고, 그것이 공적인 담론장에서 등장하기 시작했다는 것입니다. 그것이 어떤 순간에는 망각이 되기도 한다는 거죠. 1920년대에는 풍문, 스캔들, 불행의 기억으로 잊혀지고 싶은 기억으로 망각이 되었다가 이렇게 아무것도 관련이 없는 것처럼 다른 용어로 확 등장한다는 것입니다. 그래서 저는 이것을 일종의 ‘담론구조의 반복이고 변주’라고 보고 있습니다. 여기서 담론구조가 무엇이냐, 무엇이 반복되고 있나, 그리고 어떤 점이 변주되고 있을까라는 것을 생각해봅시다. 저는 일단 반복의 구조를 본다면 여성이나 젠더 문제라고 하는 것이 ‘여성적인 것은 무엇이고, 남성적인 것이 무엇이냐’, ‘여성에게 바람직한 것은 무엇이고 바람직하지 않은 것은 무엇인가요’라고 했을 때, 이 젠더 문제가 사회 변동을 가늠하는 가늠자로서 사용된다는 것입니다. 많은 숱한 변동의 의제들이 있는데,이 젠더와 여성이라는 이슈를 가지고서 비춰보려고 하는 것이죠. 그리고 그렇게 투영하려는 참여자들이 변동, 즉 오지 않은 미래에 대해서 그 미래가 얼마든지 변할 수 있다는 데에서 불안해하게 됩니다. 이 불안을 어떤 방식이던지 이 문제에 계속 투영을 시킨다는 것이죠. 그리고 이 불안을 투영하는 방식이 대단히 집중적이고 집단적으로 일어나게 됩니다. 이러한 구조가 반복되고 있으며, 구체적인 이슈에서는 변동되고 있습니다.

*) 희박한 역사의 예: 어떻게 이 (여성) 문제가 망각될 뻔 했었나?

디자이너 노라노(Nora Noh): 윤복희의 ‘미니스커트’를 디자인한 사람이자 우리나라 최초의 서양 복식의 디자이너: 여성 영화제에서 다큐멘터리 ‘노라노’(김성희 연출)도 있었음.

- 본명: 노명자, 대한민국 최초의 패션디자이너(1928.3.21.~)

- 일제 말기에 결혼을 했으나, 남편이 지원병으로 갔다가 돌아오지 못했음. 해방된 후 남편이 돌아왔지만 혼자 이혼을 한 채로 유학을 떠남. 최초의 브랜드 ‘노라노’: <인형의 집>의 ‘노라’: 20년대초 동아시아 초로 번역되어 널리 퍼진 소설.

-“자기자신을 찾아 집을 뛰쳐나온 ‘노라’처럼, 나는 노명자가 아닌 노라가 되어 새로운 인생을 시작하게 되었다.” – 한겨례 인터뷰 2013.10.16.

 

New Woman, 新女子, <신여성이란?>

공통적으로 보면 ‘신여성’이라는 말과 그것이 지칭하는 사회적인 현상들이 1890년대 영국에서 시작하여, 전세계(서구와 비서구-일본, 인도, 중국 등)에 퍼져나갔습니다. 중등교육이나 고등교육을 받은 초기 세대의 여성들을 말하는 것이며, 이들은 새로운 가치와 태도를 추구하게 됩니다. 그리고 단순히 농업사회에서 산업사회로 넘어갈 때, 화이트 칼라층에 진입할 때, 비서나 타이프라이터를 한다거나 엘리베이터 걸, 샵걸을 한다던가의 층으로 등장했습니다. 그리고 1890년대에 여성 작가들이 갑자기 나와요. 1870~80년대에 중등교육을 받은 여성들 중에서 여성 작가들이 나와서, 여성들이 대중소설을 쓰게 됩니다. 그 대중소설에 나온 인물들을 일컬어 ‘신여성’이라고 하기 시작합니다. 소설 속 여성들이 기존의 여성들과 다른 태도를 가지게 되는 것이죠. 이런 상황 속에서 이 사람들(신여성)에 대한 풍자도 나오기도 하고, 대중매체 안에서 논쟁도 일어났어요. 이게 1890년대 영국에서 있었던 일이고, 20세기초에서 192-30년대까지 전세계에 공통적으로 나타나기 시작했습니다.

*) Sarah Grand(1854-1943) 영국 페미니스트 소설가 : <Heavenly Twins>(1893): 두 쌍둥이의 여성 – 고등교육을 받은 여성들이 자유스러운 삶을 추구하지만 비참하게 생을 마감함. 자유스럽다는 것이 성적으로 방종한다는 것이 아니라, 자신의 의견을 똑바로 말하고 의지를 표명한다는 것을 의미함.

실제로 신여성(New Woman)이 영국에서 어떤 식으로 그려지고 있었는가를 보면, 대표적으로 당시 대중매체가 지적하고 있었던 것은 ‘지식을 가진 여성’들이었다. (그림을 보면서) 여성이 책을 읽고 있는데, 책이 ‘도나키혼테’죠, 즉 지식을 가졌는데 너무나 무질서하다, 이런 식으로 비아냥거리는 것이죠. 그리고 제일 중요한 상징은 자전거에요. ‘자전거’가 오늘날로 치면 자동차인데요, (사라 그랑트의 사진을 보며) 지금날의 자동차가 아니라, 1980년대 여자가 운전하는 자동차.. 이해가 되시나요? 자전거를 타려는 여성, 자전거를 위한 바지를 착용한 여성의 그림, 이거 자체가 굉장히 혁명적인 것이죠. 또 하나의 이미지는, 당시에 신여성이라는 것을 동양적 오리엔탈리즘을 지닌 여성으로 묘사하기도 합니다. 그래서 신여성을 동양적인 매혹을 가지고 있는 굉장히 관능적인 여성으로 묘사를 했었습니다.

정리하자면 뉴우먼의 이미지는 굉장히 이상화된 모습인 동시에 위험스럽고 병적인 이미지로, 남성같은 여성과 같이 받아들여집니다. 이것이 나중에 동아시아라던가 식민지를 겪은 나라와 (신여성이라는 의미에 있어서) 굉장히 다르게 됩니다. 우리나라에서는 전혀 이런 이야기가 나오지 않았는데, 서양에서는 이 문제가 굉장히 이 문제가 중요했던 거죠. 남성성, 남성의 권력에 대한 도전으로 새로운 여성 의식과 새로운 직업의식을 가지며 뭔가 독립적으로 살아보겠다는 여성들이 등장한 것입니다.

다음 일본의 경우, 1910년 경 신여자라는 말이 등장했습니다. 이들은 청탑(푸른 양말)이라고도 불리는 Bluestocking이라는 독서모임을 만들어서 청탑이라는 잡지를 만들게 됩니다. 그때 활동했던 동인들을 일컬어서 아따라시 조세이라고 했어요. 그때도 사람이 한 100명정도가 되어요. 필진을 포함해서요. 이 사람들을 묘사한 만화들이 나옵니다. 안경을 쓰고 책을 보고 있는, 담배 재떨이를 앞에 두고 있는 그림이 있구요. 27년에 최초로 나온 모던걸에 대한 일러스트레이션도 있었구요. – 서양식 복식과 머리가 짧음 – 비아냥거리는 것이 아니라 그저 모던걸에 대한 묘사였습니다. 31년에는 모던걸 사진이 있었는데, 서양식 복식과 서양 구두에 짧은 머리와 양산을 쓰고 있고, 치마가 짧아져서 다리를 내보이고 있습니다. 전통복식은 다리를 가리고 있었는데, 다리가 드러냈죠. 이것은 엄청난 논쟁거리가 됩니다.

 

신여성이 영국과 일본에 등장함으로써, 많은 대중매체에서 주목을 받았고, 특히 긴자거리를 거니는 여자들에 대해서 새로운 화이트 칼라층으로 받아들이게 된거죠. 자기 고향에서 중등교육을 받고 도시로 와서 하급관리직이지만 -타이피스트, 판매원- 여자들이 자신의 용돈을 가지고 새로운 문물을 가질 수 있는 여성이 되었습니다. 이런 여성들에 대해 많은 논란이 있었는데요. 영국의 경우에는 ‘여자 답지 않은 여자다’라고 공격을 했지만, 일본의 경우는 신여자, 모던걸에 대해서 ‘여자답지 않다’, ‘남성 권력에의 도전’으로 읽히지 않았고, (bluestocking이)양처현모이념을 공격하는 페미니스트 운동이라고 받아들여졌습니다. 그 딸세대라고 할 수 있는 모던걸은 굉장히 성적자유와 방자한 태도를 가진 여성들로 묘사됩니다. 핸드백을 열어보면 콘돔이나 영어 사전이 나오는, 그만큼 허영이 가득하다라는 말도 나왔습니다.

우리나라에서는 두 사람의 사례를 드려고 하는데요. 우리나라에서는 신여성이라고 일컬어지는 사람이 누구였는가에 대한 이야기가 그당시에도, 오늘날에도 문제가 돼요. 일본의 경우는 청탑회가 100명이면 100명이 다 필진이었고, 잡지도 만 부 이상(~100만부)까지 팔렸습니다. 하지만 우리나라의 경우는 신여성이라는 잡지가 2000~4000부 정도로 팔리고 돌려보는 문화였고, 100명이면 10명 정도 밖에 글을 쓰는 사람이 없었습니다. 그런 상황이었기 때문에, 우리 사회에 신여성이 있었나 하는 생각을 할 수 있어요. 하지만 아까 불행, 풍문으로 기억되었던 사람들이 다섯 손가락 안에 꼽히는데요. 이 사람들이 초기의 사람들입니다.

식민지 조선의 신여자(성), 모던걸

-윤심덕(1897-1926): 한국 최초의 소프라노 / 나혜석(1896-1948): 한국 근대 최초의 여성화가, 작가, 여성해방주의 사상가

-윤심덕과 나혜석: 식민지를 달군 최고의 두 스캔들/ 비극적 센세이션이라는 사회적 효과: 사회적인 담론장, 신문이나 잡지에서 ‘비극적 센세이션’이라고 말한 것이 잊혀진 이면에, 다른 이야기들이 나오기 시작했습니다. – 즉, 이들이 중등교육을 받았다. 이들이 교육을 받아서 새로운 문물에 관심을 가지고 있었다. 등의 이야기가 나오기 시작합니다.

-이 두명 제외하고도 실제로 신여성이라고 일컬어지는 사람들이 많이 있었습니다. 이 사람들을 전체적으로 보면, 2-30년대에는 여성들이 (조선인 여고보, 여성고등보통학교를 통해) 한 해에 (2000만 중에) 2000명 정도 중등교육을 받고 있었습니다. 굉장히 작은 숫자였는데도, 그래도 말이 많고, 굉장히 신여성이 많은 것처럼 느끼게 됩니다. 신문이나 잡지를 보면요. 도대체 왜 그랬을까로 생각해 봤어요. 저는 그것을 신여성의 가시성이라고 보고, 전체적으로 봤을 땐 너무나 희소한 사람들이지만, 그 당시의 서울(경성)에서는 흔하게 볼 수 있는 게 됩니다. 시골에서는 신여성의 복장 때문에 문제가 되었었는데요. 경성에서는 흔하게 볼 수 있는 여성들이었습니다. 고등학교가 경성에 몰려있기도 하지만, 동시에 일본 여군들도 굉장히 많았어요. 식민지를 기억할 때 우리 기억에 굉장히 삭제되어 있는 부분이 무엇이냐면, 일제 시대를 다룬 소설들을 보면 일본인이 거의 등장을 하지 않거든요. 대표적으로 박태원의 ‘소설가 구보씨의 일일’이라는 소설, 그 당시에 일본인이 하나도 없었던 것처럼 일본인이 한명도 나오지 않습니다. 그런데 경성 인구의 3분의 1이 일본인이었어요. 남촌 북촌으로 거주는 분리되어 있었지요. 그렇지만 실제로 거리에는 여학교를 다니는 일본 여성들, 직장 여성들, 조선 여고보 학생들도 있었어서 여성들이 굉장히 많았어요. 거리에서 뿐만 아니라 이 사람들을 묘사하는 재현물들 – 신문만화, 잡지표지, 신문/잡지 광고, 활동 사진, 영화, 사진 엽서, 전시회, 박람회 등 -이 늘어났습니다. 대중매체의 시각적 재현물 폭등과 관련되지요.

23년에 신여성(1923.9월호)이라는 잡지가 나왔어요. 그 전에는 ‘부인’이라는 잡지가 있었는데요. 이 독자층은 중등학교를 다니는 여성들이 읽을 수 있는 것, 국문을 깨친 시골 여성들도 볼 수 있었지요. 복장을 보면, 발목이 보일정도의 통치마로 흰저고리, 양화구두를 신은… 전형적인 신여성의 복장이죠. 이게 실제로 우리나라에서는 1960년대까지 결혼을 하지 않은 처녀들의 복장의 기본 형태였어요. 그리고 24년 6월호, 25년 6월호를 보면 (안석주씨가 그린 표지화) 근심이 가득해보이고 어두운 여성(신여성의 초기 모습)이 묘사되어 있지요. 왜 이렇게 근심이 차있었을까요? 그 당시 우리나라의 구습타파 분위기와 함께, 문명화 담론이 일어날 때여서, 우리나라의 문명화 담론에서 계몽의 주체가 되어야 한다는, (조선의 여성을 구해내야 한다는) 신여성으로서 역사적 사명을 받은 존재임을 묘사하고 싶었던 것 같아요. 더불어 ‘청년’이 새로운 이미지‘를 부여받으며 청년 담론이 유행하기도 했어요. 청년은 누굴까요? 수천년동안 무지와 미몽에 잠들어있었던 조선, 근대주의적인 시선으로 후진적이고 억압되어있었던 사회의 조선을 건져내는. (조선을 노인으로 비유하며) 젊은 청년으로서 새로운 조선을 추구하며 은유하는 표현으로 사용된거죠. 그리고 이 청년의 파트너가 신여성입니다. 그래서 함께 연대를 해서 바꿔보자는 의미로, 안석주의 표지 뒷면에 푸른 녹음과 자연(숲)이 있다고 해석됩니다.

하지만 실제로 당시의 여자들이 그랬는가와 그렇게 묘사되었다라고 하는 것을 등치시키면 안됩니다. 그렇게 오해하면 안됩니다. 현실과 이미지의 간극이 항상 존재한다는 점을 알아야 합니다. 더 나아가서 안석주씨는 의상을 풍자하는 일러스트도 그립니다. 아방가르드하게 그렸죠. 실제로 이랬을까요? 아니에요. 여성이 선전하는 시대가 오면 ‘이렇게 여성들이 입을 것이다’라고 상상의 나래를 펴서 풍자를 한 것이죠. 또 한편으로는 아지노모도 광고 일러스트를 볼 수 있습니다. ‘이상뎍 가뎡’, ‘신가정풍경’, ‘신가정의 량식’ 등의 광고 이미지를 볼 수 있는데, 우리나라의 근대여성들의 모습들을 과장해서 보여주기도 합니다. 이런 식의 이미지가 조선에서 그려졌습니다.

앞에서 다룬 영국, 일본의 사례와 어떤 부분에서 차이가 있을까에 대해서 생각을 해봤으면 좋겠어요. 그것이 우리 현재를 나타내는 단서가 된다고 생각합니다. 이러한 신여성에는 부여되는 의미들 – 근대여성, 새로운 가정을 만든다, 문명, 과학 등-이 많이 동원되는데요. 사치, 허영, 성적인 방종의 이미지에서부터 도탄에 빠진 늙은 조선을 구원해주는 계몽의 주체까지 여러 가지로 표현되지요. 왜 이렇게 되었을까요. 저는 이것을 ‘정치적인 전유’로 봅니다.

일단 사회 집단으로서 어떤 위치를 갖고 있는지를 본다면 (서양과의 차이), 우리 사회에서 신여성으로 일컬어지는 (구매력을 가지고, 일정한 교육을 받고, 자유연애를 하는) 여성들이 굉장히 제한되어 있었고, 굉장히 주변적이었어요. 우리나라에서의 대중적인 여성운동도 굉장히 취약했어요. 일본의 경우는 청탑회의 멤버들이 전쟁때까지 굉장히 중요한 여성운동의 세력으로 활동을 했었거든요. 여성운동은 조선에서 있을 수 없었죠. 정치운동도 금지되어있었고, 극좌, 극우운동도 제한되어 있었고, 게다가 여성운동같은 경우에는 억압과 검열의 대상이었어요. 식민지의 정치담론이 억압되고 있는 상황에서 모든 정치적인 것들은 문화적인 것들로 대체되고 있었습니다. 그래서 당시에 나오는 잡지들이 굉장히 많았는데, 근대적인 문물이 새롭게 들어올 때 그것들을 둘러싼 사회문화의제들이 모여들게 됩니다. 자유연애라던지, 신가정, 남녀평등, 교육, 성, 육체, 외모, 신문물, 과학, 위생이다하는 이야기가 많이 나오게 됩니다. 이른바 근대성의 여러 가지 측면들인데 이것들을 수용하기도 하고 거부하기도 하는데요. 이 문제를 가지고 논란이 벌어지는 거죠. 이 논란의 가늠자가 ‘신여성’이라는 가시적인 부분에서 읽어낸다는 것이죠. – 이미지와 현실이라는 것은 분명히 구분되지만 서로가 서로를 참조합니다. 이러한 관계에서 증폭되고 집중되고 에너지를 부여받게 됩니다. 이런 문제, 현상은 똑같이 대중매체에서 풍자와 논란의 대상이 되지만 서양도 그렇고, 일본도 그렇고, 그 내용과 방식이 굉장히 차별화되는 지점이 있다는 것이죠. 남성성에 대한 도전으로 읽히는 것이 아니라 한국 사회가 어디로 나아가야 할 것인가, 여자가 머리를 자르는 것이 우리의 민족성을 훼손을 하는 것이냐 하는 질문들을 하게 만든다는 것이죠.

여자가 뭐길래 왜 여자들을 가지고 이렇게 얘기하는 것일까요? 이야기 한다면, 여성의 위치라고 하는 것이 근대 사회로 들어오면서 변화하기 시작했는데요. 전근대 동아시아의 젠더체계는 부계혈통, 부처제(남편의 집에 가는 것, 시집)에 존재했고, 여자는 가체계 속에 아내, 딸, 며느리 / 적모, 서모, 친모, 계모 등으로 존재했어요. 남성성과 여성성의 이분법의 원리가 굉장히 약했고, 가체계 속에서 차지하는 관계와 위치에서 많은 이름들로 불리게 됩니다. 19세기에 들어서 서구의 문명화론 이후에 변화를 하게 되었는데요. 가족이라는 제도가 근본적으로 바뀝니다. 여성의 존재를 가체계 속에서 찾는 것이 아니라 ,여성을 양육역할을 매개로 국가 일원으로 직접 연결을 하게 됩니다. 조선시대에서는 여자가 교육자가 아닌 ‘양육자’로서 받아들여졌지만, 이제는 여성이 양육과 교육을 통해 국민을 길러내는 존재로서의 여성으로 받아들이게 됩니다. 그 수단이 신가정이라는 것이죠. 실제로가 아니라 이러한 얘기들이 지식인층에서 나오기 시작했다는 것입니다. 정리하자면, 여성이 당시의 식민주의 정치의 장으로서 굉장히 뜨겁게 사용이 되었다고 생각이 됩니다. 뜨거운 논란이 계속되는 이유가 여성 통제에 대한 관심만이 아니라, 새로운 근대적 변화가 식민지상황에서 이루어져야 한다는 불안한 상황에서, 불안과 근대화에 대한 욕망을 가늠하는 것으로서 사용되었다는 것이죠. 현실에서는 어땠는가. 처음에는 남녀가 같이 시대정신을 공유했지만 동시에 나중에 그것을 배반하게 됩니다. 그동안 몫이 없는 여성들에게는 정치의 장에서 자신의 의견을 말할 수 없었고 판단하는 주체, 욕망하는 주체로서 인정받지 못했는데요. 그 여성들이 최근에 (80-90-2000년대를 거치면서) 다양하게 나왔다고 생각을 하고요. 제도화된 여성운동, 대중화된 페미니즘의 후예들, 2000년대에 뉴미디어를 만난 여성들이 나오면서 욕망하는 주체, 말하는 주체로 등장을 한 것입니다. 아까 소란이라고 말씀했습니다만, 여자들의 말은 말이 아니라 수다였습니다. 의미있는 말이 아니라 수다.. 하지만 의미있는 말을 하는 주체, 정치적인 대표, 참여하는 주체로서 등장을 하면서 이것을 둘러싼 소란이 일어나고 있다고 생각을 합니다.

 

토론발표

  1. 연세대 한국의 문화연구) 일베가 여성에 대한 혐오, 나아가 사회에 대한 혐오를 하고 있는데, 남성이 가지는 결핍과 발탁감, 상실감에서 나온 것이 아닌가? 이것이 궁극적으로 파국의 사회에서 일종의 약자(여성으로 상정)에게 향하는 폭력이 아닌가? 그러한 맥락에서 ‘신여성’을 파악할 때, (유선영 선생님의 논문을 예로 들며) 여성에 대한 시각적인 묘사, 즉 일종의 성 욕망으로 나타나지 않았나? 그리고 신여성도 나라를 잃었다는 상황 하에 일베와 연결지을 수 있지 않을까?

 

  1. 작업장학교 청년과정) 시대가 변함에 따라 그 시대의 여성상이 변화를 하는데 지금 이 시대에 들어서 ‘신여성’이라는 게 무엇일까? 이미 지금 이시대의 여성들을 사회의 이슈에 관심을 가지고 참여하는 것이 ‘신여성’이라고 부르면, 이러한 호명 자체가 하나의 차별이 되지 않을까? / ‘가부장제’, 세월호에서 ‘가만히 있으라’라는 말을 우리 사회에 투영해봤을 때, 한국 사회의 억압적이고 경쟁을 부추기는 것이 가부장제에서 기인한 것이 아닌가?

 

  1. 개별참가자 조) 여성과 자전거 그림 – ‘와즈다’ 중동의 영화와 비교했을 때 – 우리나라와 중동의 신여성의 흐름의 비교해보면 어떨까? / 남성들의 권력을 가져오는 것만이 평등이 아닌 것 같다. 여성들이 해왔던 일(가사일)들의 가치가 낮게 평가되는 느낌이 있다. / 공연 스태프에서 힘을 쓰는 일들을 남성적인 일이라고 일컫기도 하고, 그 스태프를 하는 여성들이 보이쉬한 외모를 가지는데, 그것이 함의하는 것이 무엇일까?

 

토론

나임윤경 선생님) 많은 연구자들이 근대를 연구하는 이유는, 오늘 우리가 왜 이런 방식의 말을 하고 이런 방식의 생활을 하고 사유를 하는가를 보기 위해서입니다. ‘일베가 굉장히 적은 숫자임에도 불구하고, 한국 사회에 일베가 이렇게 훅 들어왔나?’ 또 ‘신여성이 숫자가 적은데, 어떻게 그렇게 과잉적으로 신여성에 대한 담론과 사진이 훅 들어왔나?’를 생각해보았을 때, 한국사회는 그럴 준비가 다 잘 되어있었던 것이 아닐까?하는 생각을 해보았습니다.

KBS 기자 채용에서 일베 회원이 채용된 사실을 알려졌을 때 우리는 모두 비판을 했지요. 하지만 그 의사결정하는 사람은 그렇지 않을 것이라는 생각을 어떻게 할 수 있을까요? 또, 회항사건으로 조현아씨가 갑질로 비판받을 때를 생각해봅시다. ‘나 또한 어디선가 을을 무시하고 있지는 않은가?’를 생각해보았을 때, 우리는 일베는 아무에나 있다고 생각할 수 있을 것입니다. 우리 모두가 자기 성찰력을 잃고 있지 않은가요?

남성들의 박탈감각에 대해서 생각해봅시다. 1960년대부터 여성 상위시대에 대한 논의가 제기되었습니다. 요새는 역풍이라고 하잖아요. 남자들은 그럼 무엇을 ‘박탈’당한 것일까요. 혹시 너와 나를 포함한 우리 사회가 이 상황을 받아들일 준비만을 하고 있는 것은 아니었을까요?

 

김수진 선생님) 100년 전의 이야기를 꺼내 게 된 배경은 ‘흔적’의 귀환이고, 구조의 상동성이었습니다. 어느 사회나 불안하죠. 근대사회에서는 서양도 그렇고 근대성이라는 특징 자체가 불안성, 휘발성인데요. 20세기 세계사적으로 폭력과 증오의 정치가 난무했었잖아요. 인종 말살까지 나온건데. 기존의 다른 근대사회에서의, 근대사회가 가지고 있었던 적대와 균열이 약자에게 투영되게 마련입니다. 그것이 굉장히 인종적인 형태로 나타났었던 것이고, 우리 사회에서는 인종적인 형태로 나타나지 않았고 성적인 문제로 치환되고 있었습니다. 여성혐오라는 문제 원인적인 형태는 ‘OO은 문제가 있다’라는 생각에 기인하여, 담론이 구조화된 것입니다. 예를 들어, 여성은 허영기가 있고 이기적이기 때문에 문제다. 원인이다라는 이야기를 들으면 여성들은 그것이 아니다라고 증명을 하려합니다. 그것을 증거로서 ‘-아니다’라 말해도 그것을 모두 충족시킬 수 없는 것이죠. 이것이 보편적인 담론의 구조인데요. 한국에서는 그것이 여성에게 쉽게 만들어집니다. 이것은 단순히 여자가 불행하고 약자다라는 말은 아닙니다. 단순히 약자라면 증오하지 않죠. 본인에게 주는 잠재적 위협이라는 것을 느낄 때, 증오의 정치가 발동됩니다. 100년 전에 그것이 먼저 시작이 되었다는 것이죠.(증오의 복잡성)

 

조한혜정 선생님) 일정하게 남성 중심의 시선과 욕망이, 신여성의 이미지를 부각시켰죠. 이것은 일베와 연결됩니다. 남성들의 시선으로 여성을 재현했다는 점에서..

당시에는 빨리 근대화를 하고 싶어했던 욕망을 있었어요. 신학문을 했던 남자들은 조혼했던 아내와 이혼하기도 하고, 이처럼 진보적인 남성들은 신여성들을 좋아했습니다. 이것은 빨리 근대화를 하고 싶었던 데에서 기인한다고 볼 수 있습니다.

근데 왜 갑자기 여성 혐오의 이야기가 나올까? 그 사이에 억압되어왔던 여성들의 변화 ‘알파걸’. ‘대장금’. ‘미세족’ 등으로 다가오자 남자에게 위협으로 다가오게 됩니다. 언제 이 여자가 날 버릴지 모른다. 이전에는 종속된 아내로, 안정적인 사람이었는데 말이죠. 연애를 할 때에도 여성들이 변화하고, 군가산점, 생리휴가 등의 문제가 수면 위로 오르자, 그 (남성)군중의 시선이 변화하게 된 것이죠. 신자유주의, 적자생존의 상황에서 남성들의 불안함이, 누군가를 깔아뭉개고 분노를 발산시킴으로써 이 상황을 타개하고(?) 싶어했다고 볼 수 있습니다.

80년대 후반 ‘또하나의 문화 운동’이라는 것이 있었습니다. – 남녀가 평등하고 협력하는 관계가 되어야 한다. – 신문은 여성들의 이런 이야기가 ‘탈정치화’시킬 수 있었다는 점에서 좋아했습니다. 남자들에게 있어서 문화사회적인 말은 ‘정치적’이지 않을 것이라는 생각을 했기 때문이죠. 이 상황에서 비폭력적인 여성들의 운동을 신문에서 싣는 것이 환영 받았던 것입니다. 하지만 실제로로 문화사회적인 것이 훨씬 더 정치적인 것이죠.

 

나임윤경 선생님) 30년 주기로 계속 여성 혐오 현상이 나타났습니다. 자본주의로 인한 소비문화, 즉 여성을 대상으로 한 소비문화와 연관지을 수 있습니다. 한국 사회의 경제 볼륨이 커질 때마다, 소비조장적인 분위기에 부응하는 여성들에 대해서 담론이 형성되는구나 싶었습니다.

 

김수진 선생님) 여성운동의 명암에 대해서 말하고자 합니다. 80년대 여성운동은 ‘여성들이 많은 직업을 갖도록, 여성들의 임금, 엄마처럼 살지 않겠다.’ 위주로 진행되었습니다. 하지만 현실적으로 100: 60이거나, 비정규직이거나, 취업하기 힘든 구조가 계속되어 왔지요. 이런 상황 속에서 남성 생계 부양 모델이 더 편해지게 됩니다. 하지만 문화적으로는 그렇지 않은 여성들의 힘이 부각되었고 남성들은 다 뺏길 수 있다는 생각을 하게 되어 공포심을 가지게 됩니다.\

 

나임윤경 선생님) 고소득의 엘리트 일베에 대해서 어떻게 생각해야 할까요? 이들은 무엇을 무서워 하나요?

 

조한혜정 선생님) 이전에 누렸던 것들을 못 누릴테니가 아닐까? 아버지들을 보면, 전세대의 아빠들은 엄마가 불평하면서도 챙겨줬는데, 이제 남자들은 그것에 대한 불안이 생기는 것이죠. 공포로 오고… 그런데 이것이 구조적으로 순환되는 담론이라고 보았을 때 희망적으로 볼 수 있겠다는 생각이 듭니다.

 

김수진 선생님) 일베를 보면서 절망을 느끼고, 어떻게 해야할까라는 고민을 많이 했었습니다. ‘정치적/경제적 권력’은 우리나라에서 최소한 남성이 지배적이지만, 그럼에도 불구하고 남성들이 느낄 불안과 공포…..가 이해됩니다. 정서적 돌봄으로부터 버림을 받을까봐… 그것이 이전에는 돈을 벌어다 줌으로써 보장이 된다고 생각했는데, 이제는 아니게 된 것이죠. 이것이 역설적으로 여성에게 달렸다고 보는데. 여성들의 강인한 힘을 키워야 하지 않을까요?

 

조한혜정 선생님) 가부장제에 대한 논의로 이어봤을 때, 여자가 자신의 이익만 찾으려고 한다는 왜곡된 담론을 경계할 필요가 있지 않을까?

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